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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Inauguration Day, Inauguration Hooooooraaay!
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Inauguration Day, Inauguration Hooooooraaay!
2017-06-30, 3:44 PM #2761
Speaking from personal experience... In 1997, I neither had internet access, not a computer that could run Dark Forces II (although I looked fondly at previews of it in old copies of The Adventurer). And LiveJournal didn't exist. I remember using it in 2004.
2017-06-30, 3:47 PM #2762
Quote:
misundetstandibg


WTF, I wrote that? Infernal machine of a phone.
2017-06-30, 4:03 PM #2763
Originally posted by Jon`C:
2007 more like 1997 what the hell are you on about

Facebook was even a thing in 2007


Naw dude Lycos didn't even exist until 2011
former entrepreneur
2017-06-30, 4:07 PM #2764
Originally posted by Spook:
how disappointing

and no we are both of the same flock. we can sense the others valence, even if its ambivalence and makes the sensing worthless


I have nothing :(
former entrepreneur
2017-06-30, 4:10 PM #2765
nothing is a thing
Epstein didn't kill himself.
2017-06-30, 4:11 PM #2766
I have no thing
former entrepreneur
2017-06-30, 4:16 PM #2767
what is the sound of one hand fapping
Epstein didn't kill himself.
2017-06-30, 4:41 PM #2768
You guys seen Google News lately? Google more or less killed their desktop version of the site in favor of a low-information density mobile-style site that has silently taken its place. Users are universally peeved, but the silver lining seems to be they are apt to suggest at least one alternative that seems very good to me.

Quote:
Ignoring the sloppy visual appeal, Google has taken the best informational news site on the web and turned it into mindless garbage. Simply doing a headline and graphics and links to other stories omits the part of the page that mattered - the short article snippets gave information (and also gave one an idea as to whether the full article was worth a click). News has content - it's not just graphics and only a really uniformed designer would have ignored that.

While this might be an okay revamp for the smallest 3-4 inch and smaller cell phone screens, it is completely inappropriate for larger phones, tablets, and desktops.

Bing and Yahoo news, which aren't great,suddenly are better options than Google News, which went from my many times a day destination to a "never ever visit" site overnight.

For those looking for some content, and wanting to still see multiple media outlets on one site, http://memeorandum.com/ and flipboard.com come closest to the old superb Google.

I know Google isn't likely to admit mistakes, but turning a news site into a sloppy version of Entertainment Tonight was one of the biggest goofs they have ever made.
2017-06-30, 4:57 PM #2769
Problem is, http://memeorandum.com/ is massively stuck inside the US news bubble and also only covers politics.

Anyone have any suggestions for a similar site that aggregates world news like Google News used to? Most important to me is showing the first few sentences of a story and not just the headline, but this is probably too much to ask.

Edit: Apparently the same people run a sister site called http://techmeme.com/ which also seems good, but tech news is still not everything.
2017-06-30, 5:12 PM #2770
Heh. Interview with the founder of Memorandum in 2008 (emph. added):

Quote:
Tech.memeorandum was launched in September 2005, so the biggest mystery of all is why a rich global corporation has not made Gabe an offer he can't refuse and globalised his system. He's had offers, but he values his freedom and says: "I don't want to be accountable to organisations that appear clueless about the future of news."
2017-06-30, 5:15 PM #2771
Whoa, and the site is versioned. I.e., I can go back in time to see what the news looked like on any day and any time.

Contrast Google News, which has written Robots.txt to disallow archiving by www.archive.org crawlers (so I can't even see what the site used to look like now that they've killed it). Ironic!
2017-06-30, 5:20 PM #2772
Sad!
Epstein didn't kill himself.
2017-06-30, 7:41 PM #2773
Originally posted by Spook:
And suppressing this and barreling head first with business as usual is the source of many of our social hangups, I would say. When I said I am unmedicated earlier, I did refer to chemicals but more specifically to the hopium that drives so much insecurity in our society. It frees me significantly.


I see. I agree very much that much of our social problems are a result of us suppressing the truth about the future. In real political terms, would you say climate change denial is an example? I also think getting clean from hopium, again in real political terms in the form of Silicon Valley futurist utopianism, identity politic utopianism or conservative AynRandland utopianism. Are these the sorts of hopium you're referring to?

Originally posted by Spook:
To quote George Mallory, because it's there.

It's quite possibly the greatest challenge I can find to fill that need to be active on a frontier. Or that's what some would say about me, I don't really think about it that way.


That's a noble goal. Trying to reverse our political situation is no small task. The only thing I'm concerned about is you can make life an insurmountable problem for yourself. Have you listened to the ****town (Google S-town) podcast? It's a short series covering the life of an eccentric guy who lives in Alabama, and he spends a great deal of time anguishing over the poor choices and hopeless lives of the people around him. It's incredibly empathetic in a world where hardly anyone gives a ****. I am very confident, given your tone in this post, that you would relate to him, John McLemore. Though I'd recommend you not listen to the last couple episodes if you do decide to listen to the podcast, because the topics dwindle in quality past a certain point.

Originally posted by Spook:
But more importantly, because it is coming for all of us. Maybe it's because I got to see the ass end of the way that everything is working in Iraq, Israel etc. and can easily apply the state of affairs there onto my current surroundings. Maybe it's because I grew up in a millenarian cult and I just couldn't let go of the apocalypse stuff. But it's probably for the same reason Werner Herzog watches Wrestlemania. The poet must not avert his eyes. I don't think anyone should, especially since if there were a chance left to become a resilient species we need a group mobilization that would dwarf WWII. But everyone copes with their own death (and in the macrocosm, the death of everything) in a different way, and sometimes that includes denial so I try not to evangelize too much, and other than on the internet, I only bring this stuff up when asked.

Though while I spend a lot of time thinking about this stuff, I spend a lot of time just doing stuff, ala Jonesies Feynman quote above.


I really enjoyed that Werner Herzog video. I've never seen one of his films, but I've seen him in a few interviews, and he's always engaging. And I agree. We should fully explore the oddities of our culture, and figure out what illnesses they are symbols for. I'm just concerned that the task may be insurmountable. And what if it is? What do you do if you discover the problems are out of your control? Distraction, suicide or extreme heroism are your choices.
2017-06-30, 9:12 PM #2774
Originally posted by Reid:
What do you do if you discover the problems are out of your control? Distraction, suicide or extreme heroism are your choices.


That's a very false set of choices in my experience.

Unless you consider mere curious waiting and observation in between much shorter moments of necessarily stressful non-conformity ("extreme heroism") to be a form of distraction.

If you don't carry the whole world on your shoulders, you may find that you are forced to be more efficient in making it better without burning out....

Unless you really do have feelings of guilt over indulgence, in which case you can try asceticism and self denial to boost yourself spiritually and make room for more intellectual activities.

Or maybe I am inherently better adapted to avoiding these quandaries because I tend not to think moralistically (except when morally obligated to).
2017-06-30, 9:18 PM #2775
Or: I am dumb.
2017-06-30, 10:00 PM #2776
Another possibility: does philosophy inherently engender existential anxiety in those who partake?

Kind of like how taking the wrong kind of feminism and other brands of identity politics too seriously can make one depressed ("the patriarchy is why I'm unhappy! But let me check the oven to see if my second batch of cookies is ready before I finish this Facebook post on hateful societal norms that have as of yet stymied my crusade to promote awareness of body positivity").
2017-06-30, 10:05 PM #2777
I really might just be dumb, but since I've never murdered anybody or committed other various heinous crimes, and I find the fact that everybody dies kind of funny / farcical, I have a hard time relating to existential angst or guilt.

Or maybe I've never had to cope with serious, long lasting personal hardship in my life, which could make one more sympathetic to the immediate suffering of others....
2017-06-30, 10:09 PM #2778
Disclaimer: I have not watched the video.

Edit: Update, I have stopped averting my eyes.
2017-06-30, 10:29 PM #2779
Would you look at this! Thiel and the brogrammers in the news on HN.



Quote:
Palantir has an outdated software stack (Java/Swing). Their genius lied in creating "mythical image" and cleverly overselling it to the less proficient government agencies (apparently NSA was smart enough to see through the ruse). And then in turn sell the "spooky/mysterious" image to bunch of naive Stanford/Berkeley undergrads and convince them to work for peanuts.

Sadly in 2017, their tech stack is falling apart, they have no meaningful ML/AI strategy, the agencies/corporation cannot be fooled any longer, and employees have suddenly realized that the stock (without an IPO in sight) might be worthless and have begun leaving.

Finally the political environment along association with Thiel isn't helping them make any new friends.

Having known several people who work or were hired at Palantir, I can assure you it probably has the worst overconfident brogrammer culture. So much so that I truly hope no US government agency is using them for critical functions because its nothing more than hot air.



Although to be totally fair, this does smell a bit like the BSD is dying trope....
2017-07-01, 2:28 PM #2780
Originally posted by Spook:
what is the sound of one hand fapping


fap fap fap fap
former entrepreneur
2017-07-02, 9:25 PM #2781
Do not avert your eyes from wrestling!
2017-07-02, 11:06 PM #2782
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
...regarding (WORDS).

Now, I like to think that Reid and I have buried the hatchet, so to speak, since our earlier exchange, so please bear with me when I ask this as an honest question:

Isn't this response by Reid a perfect microcosm for what European philosophers did for millennia? That is to say: being motivated to respond to a reading of their own words that they see as misunderstood, accuse the other side of seeing only peripheral and surface details of their ideas, but then proceed to do exactly the same thing themselves?

I.e., alternately talking past / accusing one another for doing the very same, for thousands of years.

But, maybe it's all worth it, as an endurance contest, as a way of justifying all the time you spent training yourself on WORDS, in a glorious and public display of erudition.

But please don't interpret my post as a genuine opportunity to clarify my misunderstanding, because (surprise!) I didn't read your WORDS. :D (So am I officially a philosopher now?)

Current Mood:
naughty

Yeah, we are okay. And no, I do not think this view of philosophy accurately represents the field. Though, I do think it cleaves toward something with a bit of truth in it, so like, I think you're half wrong. I mean, I can leave a funny quote here:

Originally posted by Nietzsche:
Every deep thinker is more afraid of being understood than of being misunderstood.


And so in some sense I think that's right, and sort of confirms what you said, that even if found out for what they truly intended, and it was wrong, many philosophers won't fess up to it and will make excuses and claim to be misunderstood. However, I do think many philosophers take solid punches to their main views, accept it, and move on. Wittgenstein certainly adopted and abandoned a few entirely new, and extremely influential, views once he thought the old one was inadequate. Nietzsche evolved thought and the impressions he gives in later writings don't always work well with earlier ones. Evolution and recanting of views does frequently happen. As well, not every view gets "defeated", so to say. Several of Hume's views, while not universally accepted, are staples of philosophical thought with solid schools backing them. At a certain point, which philosophical theory one chooses doesn't have a decisive argument, and each have strong and weak points. I also think many good philosophers aren't as dogmatic as it seems from the outside, because dogmatic philosophers make more of a spectacle and are thus more visible.

Also I would make a particularly poor philosopher, as I'm not a good writer. Which is why it's not my study. Also I'd like to address your earlier claim, particularly this post:

Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
Now tell me I can't succeed in making a difference materially with engineering chops and a philosophical outlook (I don't mean reading some kind of canon, I am not well read at all in philosophy, and given OTOH the amount of time I've spent meditating on ideas on my own terms, I consider that to be a good thing, although maybe I'll read more irrelevant ideas of dead people for fun when I retire?) and tell me who's the pessimist.


Which I found distasteful, by talking a bit about the implicit scientism of your views. You claimed philosophy is irrelevant. I'd argue that any investigation into the topic shows the opposite is true. I'll really just respond with a quote:

Originally posted by Einstein:
I fully agree with you about the significance and educational value of methodology as well as history and philosophy of science. So many people today—and even professional scientists—seem to me like somebody who has seen thousands of trees but has never seen a forest. A knowledge of the historic and philosophical background gives that kind of independence from prejudices of his generation from which most scientists are suffering. This independence created by philosophical insight is—in my opinion—the mark of distinction between a mere artisan or specialist and a real seeker after truth.


Einstein didn't just say this, he developed an entire influential philosophical theory of truth (many of the quotes from Einstein in here are good to read on this. very good. don't read the whole article if you don't want, but look at Einstein's quotes, because he's basically the role model for a philosopher-scientist). Heisenberg wrote a book, Physics and Philosophy, where he discusses the relationship between physics and philosophy in a fair and balanced way. I should add, Heisenberg is quoted as attributing his ability to think to reading Plato and other philosophers as a child, his mother was a classics scholar. So two of the absolute best scientific minds of the 20th century were highly influenced by and influential in philosophy.

Of course, there are also counter examples. Feynman spoke badly of philosophy, as did Stephen Hawking. However, it's too common for people to overestimate Hawking's abilities by quite a bit. As you'll see here, he isn't as groundbreaking a scientist as it might seem from his popularity. Andy Buckley suggests this is due to the wheelchair spectacle, and frankly I think he's right. Of course, when Stephen Hawking indicts philosophers for failing to keep up with science.. well, he's not wrong about that. There definitely is a growing rift between the sciences and philosophy. And that's not a good thing, it's not science progressing beyond philosophy, it's a cultural calamity that's actually just bad for everybody.

Now, let's be clear here. I'm not saying everyone needs to study philosophy. Or that you can't be a good scientist without philosophy. Or that if you don't study intersectional feminist queer theory you'll never invent anything cool. But my view is basically similar to Einstein: studying philosophy can help free your mind of prejudices and biases. Because there are many very clever people who have thought very hard about a lot of important things, and those are worth reading if you want a boost to your thinking skills.
2017-07-02, 11:29 PM #2783
One thing I feel like I should mention about philosophy, which I had read somewhere, is that much of science used to be called philosophy, until it more or less became successful enough in its own domain to take on its own life, without continuing to be philosophy explicitly. But, the theory goes, it usually started out that way, and it's not clear it could have existed without it. Physics started out as natural philosophy.

Anyway, I very much agree with what you are saying in this post, and I will readily own up to my scientistic point of view, even in its faults. At any rate, although I enjoy having my own point of view, I have a little remorse for being proud enough of it to shove it in your face so inconsiderately. Your response is much more civil than the thing I wrote originally, and it is something I can actually enjoy reading and may write another post when I get around to thinking about it more.
2017-07-03, 6:15 AM #2784
Reverend Jones MAY write another post.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2017-07-03, 8:38 AM #2785
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
Do not avert your eyes from wrestling!


He's a strongman.
former entrepreneur
2017-07-03, 12:47 PM #2786
I feel you meant that somewhat as a pun, but I can't help but take issue with your meaning of the word "is".

He wants to be a strongman. But then so does a petulant child, which is exactly what I see in that tweet. Strength requires being mature enough to have gone through puberty and coincidentally having learned to not lash out in tearful rage when bullied.

Oh, but appearing strong is very important to President Trump.
2017-07-03, 2:30 PM #2787
Finally watched the video today. I thought it was funny, not sure why it's a big deal. I saw some reporter tweeted something about pro-wrestling being fake which was pretty obviously a big point of the video.

I guess there is some theory that Republicans are using these distractions to pass things and if they haven't I'm sure they'll start soon as the media and other anti-Trump activists seem to be totally obsessed with his Twitter account.

I wonder if the increasing corn demand due to soaring popcorn sales will lead to an increase in fuel prices.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2017-07-03, 3:24 PM #2788
Of course. There's not much reason to get excited about an immature tweet from Donald Trump, although many will try.

In the end, though in either case we ought not make too much of it, what's more appalling? That a bunch of liberals are feigning outrage over an unprofessional tweet, or that the president is immature enough to act in a way that prokes outrage (however overblown) in the first place?

Put more simply, how should we explain to our children the behavior of the leader of our country, and how he is a role model? Or should we throw up our hands and congratulate them for being less childish already than him, at age 10?
2017-07-03, 3:30 PM #2789
TL;DR: he's a troll, and it's working on liberals. This is a bad thing, for which I blame his enablers, not his overzealous critics--he is below the dignity of the office.
2017-07-03, 4:09 PM #2790
Pretty much agree. It's been a rough eight and a half years or so.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2017-07-03, 4:22 PM #2791
◔ ⌣ ◔
2017-07-03, 5:31 PM #2792
It so rules that our president is a literal Twitter troll.
2017-07-03, 5:39 PM #2793
Originally posted by Wookie06:
Finally watched the video today. I thought it was funny, not sure why it's a big deal. I saw some reporter tweeted something about pro-wrestling being fake which was pretty obviously a big point of the video.

I guess there is some theory that Republicans are using these distractions to pass things and if they haven't I'm sure they'll start soon as the media and other anti-Trump activists seem to be totally obsessed with his Twitter account.

I wonder if the increasing corn demand due to soaring popcorn sales will lead to an increase in fuel prices.


Because many liberal reporters still have this fantasy where they catch Donald Trump in a lie and it affects him, or that any of the classical rules of conduct still matter. "Sir, are you aware that on March 14, 2014 you criticized president Obama for being weak on Russia?" Trump stammers and begins to sweat as everybody focuses in. The room is silent save the clicking of dozens of cameras. Empowered, the liberal reporter continues. "Sir, you recommended we don't sanction Russia. It's time to stop lying. You're a hypocrite!" The room roars in applause, Trump faints and resigns three minutes later, and Hillary Clinton is restored as true president (she actually won the popular vote), and the media is awarded $100,000,000,000 in gold trophies for being adversarial enough to defeat the worst dictator in human history.
2017-07-03, 6:14 PM #2794
Originally posted by Wookie06:
Pretty much agree. It's been a rough eight and a half years or so.


The US has been in severe decline since 1999 at least, so I really don't know what you're talking about when you say 8.5 years.
2017-07-03, 6:56 PM #2795
I love your previous post and I generally agree with your last one except that in my recollection of modern presidents, actual recollection and not what I've learned, we haven't really had massive trolls as presidents until the last two.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2017-07-03, 7:26 PM #2796
Hey, what`da know, a conservative responding to a complex topic with a dubious equivocation.
2017-07-03, 8:12 PM #2797
You think this is a complex topic? What equivocation? Rhetorical, I know you don't know Obama's a troll.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2017-07-03, 8:30 PM #2798
Hey does anybody else remember when America built wealth instead of inflating bubble after bubble
2017-07-03, 8:52 PM #2799
On this forum?
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2017-07-03, 9:20 PM #2800
Okay... how exactly is Obama a troll?
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