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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Inauguration Day, Inauguration Hooooooraaay!
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Inauguration Day, Inauguration Hooooooraaay!
2017-11-03, 5:28 PM #5041
http://www.clickhole.com/article/we-employees-clickholecom-have-voted-unanimously-d-6952#22,
2017-11-04, 11:50 AM #5042
Is anybody else following this Datalink/Google case? It’s probably one of the most interesting lawsuits of our time.

Most recently, a US district court just ruled that Google is not required to obey a Canadian Supreme Court order. This is going to be a train wreck.
2017-11-04, 1:37 PM #5043
I’m guessing not, because US news is basically zero signal, so I’ll summarize what’s going on.

The Supreme Court of Canada ordered Google to deindex the websites of a wanted criminal who is using Google to sell counterfeit products.

US District Court ruled that Google is not required to obey the SCC’s order / Canadian law.

(Google’s argument is interesting too, but only because of how bad it is. Google asserts that their indexing of websites is free speech, but by US caselaw it isn’t - providing a link is considered contributory infringement. Their second argument is that safe harbour means they don’t have to deindex anything, but that’s not what safe harbour means. It means Google is immune to prosecution for contributory infringement if and only if they promptly remove the infringing content, which they failed to do. Canadian law is very similar to US law in both free speech and safe harbour. None of this stopped the US from ruling in Google’s favor here, which is absolutely unsurprising because the US is the US and Google is rich.)

So now we get to see what happens next.

Google is a business operating in soveriegn Canada, and is subject to Canadian law. US courts have literally zero authority to override Canada in this decision. Assuming Google refuses to comply, what will be the outcome? As of right now, Google is in contempt of the SCC and a wilful infringer. Will the SCC punish Google for this? I hope so, but mostly because **** Google.

If the Canadian decision ends up standing, it opens the doors for any country to unilaterally impose content restrictions globally based on their internal law. This is probably bad.

If the US decision ends up actually being respected somehow, it opens the doors for countries to nullify the laws of other countries without much apparent logic. For example, if a Russian company were caught helping people violate Magnitsky laws in the US, should Russia be allowed to stop the international actions the US would seek against that company? Because by the logic of the US courts, Russia may have the right. What decides whose laws apply? Biggest country? Biggest military? US > *? If this stands, it will definitely be terrible.

No matter what happens, it’s gonna be fun.
2017-11-04, 3:49 PM #5044
Not to distract from Jon`C's effortpost, but: doesn't this sound a little bit guilty?

[quote=The Hill]
An attorney representing President Trump in the ongoing investigation into whether his campaign colluded with Russia said in an interview published Saturday that his team would challenge special counsel Robert Mueller if the probe began looking at Trump's former business deals.

Politico reported Saturday that Jay Sekulow, a conservative attorney who joined Trump's team in June, said that Trump's attorneys are ready to challenge the legality of Mueller's actions if he detours into anything they consider "outside the scope" of the inquiry, such as looking at old real estate deals the president might have been involved in through his Trump Organization.

“We’d view that as outside the scope of legitimate inquiry,” Sekulow said. “We’d raise it.”

Trump himself has said that any investigation of his personal finances by Mueller would be out-of-bounds.

In July, Trump told The New York Times that Mueller would be in "violation" of his special counsel mandate to shift his probe's focus from Russia.

"No, I think that’s a violation. Look, this is about Russia. So I think if he wants to go, my finances are extremely good, my company is an unbelievably successful company," Trump said.

[...]

[/quote]

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/358766-trump-attorney-well-challenge-mueller-if-he-investigates-old-real
2017-11-04, 5:18 PM #5045
Yes. I think most people already believe Trump is guilty, the question is whether the evidence exists. Which is hard to say. Is Trump so dumb as to leave evidence laying around, or is Trump so dumb that nobody in his campaign would let him know any specifics? That's the real question.
2017-11-04, 5:19 PM #5046
Originally posted by Jon`C:
I’m guessing not, because US news is basically zero signal, so I’ll summarize what’s going on.

The Supreme Court of Canada ordered Google to deindex the websites of a wanted criminal who is using Google to sell counterfeit products.

US District Court ruled that Google is not required to obey the SCC’s order / Canadian law.

(Google’s argument is interesting too, but only because of how bad it is. Google asserts that their indexing of websites is free speech, but by US caselaw it isn’t - providing a link is considered contributory infringement. Their second argument is that safe harbour means they don’t have to deindex anything, but that’s not what safe harbour means. It means Google is immune to prosecution for contributory infringement if and only if they promptly remove the infringing content, which they failed to do. Canadian law is very similar to US law in both free speech and safe harbour. None of this stopped the US from ruling in Google’s favor here, which is absolutely unsurprising because the US is the US and Google is rich.)

So now we get to see what happens next.

Google is a business operating in soveriegn Canada, and is subject to Canadian law. US courts have literally zero authority to override Canada in this decision. Assuming Google refuses to comply, what will be the outcome? As of right now, Google is in contempt of the SCC and a wilful infringer. Will the SCC punish Google for this? I hope so, but mostly because **** Google.

If the Canadian decision ends up standing, it opens the doors for any country to unilaterally impose content restrictions globally based on their internal law. This is probably bad.

If the US decision ends up actually being respected somehow, it opens the doors for countries to nullify the laws of other countries without much apparent logic. For example, if a Russian company were caught helping people violate Magnitsky laws in the US, should Russia be allowed to stop the international actions the US would seek against that company? Because by the logic of the US courts, Russia may have the right. What decides whose laws apply? Biggest country? Biggest military? US > *? If this stands, it will definitely be terrible.

No matter what happens, it’s gonna be fun.


Google can't provide search results for only certain countries?
2017-11-04, 6:17 PM #5047
Originally posted by Reid:
Yes. I think most people already believe Trump is guilty, the question is whether the evidence exists. Which is hard to say. Is Trump so dumb as to leave evidence laying around, or is Trump so dumb that nobody in his campaign would let him know any specifics? That's the real question.


You didn't quantify what kind of guilt we are talking about here. In this discussion most people default to collusion (which is actually a meaningless term, which is why the administration loves to talk about it).

The article was about real estate. Does anybody believe that the evidence doesn't exist that Trump (or Kushner) violated money laundering laws in his real estate transactions?
2017-11-04, 6:52 PM #5048
At what point is a website/search engine considered to be operating in a foreign country? I would guess it would have to be if they have servers in that country (which I don't doubt google does). Otherwise, I don't agree with the logic that a website that is merely accessible from a country is 'operating' there.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2017-11-04, 6:55 PM #5049
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
You didn't quantify what kind of guilt we are talking about here. In this discussion most people default to collusion (which is actually a meaningless term, which is why the administration loves to talk about it).

The article was about real estate. Does anybody believe that the evidence doesn't exist that Trump (or Kushner) violated money laundering laws in his real estate transactions?


Yeah, he's probably guilty. What I mean by evidence isn't the court of public opinion, but criminal court.
2017-11-04, 6:56 PM #5050
Originally posted by Reid:
Google can't provide search results for only certain countries?


That would not be an effective remedy for the plaintiff, because they sell their products internationally. The original perpetrator fled Canada and continues to sell counterfeits over the internet, effectively forcing the plaintiff to compete against themselves in the international market. This wouldn't be possible without Google's (now willful) complicity.
2017-11-04, 7:00 PM #5051
Originally posted by Freelancer:
At what point is a website/search engine considered to be operating in a foreign country? I would guess it would have to be if they have servers in that country (which I don't doubt google does). Otherwise, I don't agree with the logic that a website that is merely accessible from a country is 'operating' there.


When they report revenue sourced from that foreign country.
2017-11-04, 7:04 PM #5052
Look, this isn't complicated. Being American doesn't entitle you to break Canadian law. Even if you don't set foot there. All it means is that it's harder for the Canadian legal system to punish you.

Google can choose to voluntarily comply with Canadian law. Or they can refuse, and be punished for it with fines, arrests, or seizure of property, as our justice system deems appropriate. Or they can **** off right out of the Canadian market. Truthfully I don't much care which option they choose.
2017-11-04, 7:13 PM #5053
It's almost like this is a really complicated problem that should probably be settled in a treaty. Maybe the US will have a government capable of diplomacy some day.
2017-11-04, 7:38 PM #5054
Originally posted by Reid:
Yeah, he's probably guilty. What I mean by evidence isn't the court of public opinion, but criminal court.


I never said anything about the court of public opinion either!

I would be surprised if that man hasn't done enough shady **** that the prosecutors could use to convict him, but might be hesitant to for political reasons. I'd imagine the only thing to save him would be statute of limitations.
2017-11-04, 8:22 PM #5055
Treason still has the death penalty in the US, right?
2017-11-04, 8:24 PM #5056
lol
2017-11-04, 8:26 PM #5057
I was talking about money laundering / shady real estate stuff, which don't need to be treasonous to result in serious time. Then again, depending on how deep into the Russian mob (government) world that stuff goes, it's hard to to avoid the treason question.
2017-11-04, 8:42 PM #5058
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
I was talking about money laundering / shady real estate stuff, which don't need to be treasonous to result in serious time. Then again, depending on how deep into the Russian mob (government) world that stuff goes, it's hard to to avoid the treason question.


If there's any connection between Trump and Russia at all (lol), among other things Congress passed veto-proof sanctions against Russia's oligarchs and he's intentionally delaying implementation of them.
2017-11-04, 9:07 PM #5059
Well nothing about that sounds suspicious

I guess now is the time for Americans to carefully choose their future, and therefore how historians will look back upon their country. Petty political games and apologizing don't really age well once a century has passed.
2017-11-04, 9:46 PM #5060
Recall that one of the chief disagreements between Cuba and the US is expropriation of capital during the revolution. The US wanted Cuba to pay for the corporate property they seized. And Cuba agreed to do it, too, so that wasn't even the problem. The problem was determining the value of the property: Cuba wanted to use the values reported to the tax authority under the previous US-backed regime, and the US didn't because they knew American businesses were committing mass tax fraud over there, so the self-reported values were meaningless. Anyway, long story short, Coca-Cola lost some sugar fields they claimed were worthless, and the US spent the better part of a century and most of their political capital harassing and blockading a tiny island that nobody with a right mind should care about.

Not sure where I'm going with this. I'm sure there's a lesson somewhere.
2017-11-05, 2:59 AM #5061
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Recall that one of the chief disagreements between Cuba and the US is expropriation of capital during the revolution. The US wanted Cuba to pay for the corporate property they seized. And Cuba agreed to do it, too, so that wasn't even the problem. The problem was determining the value of the property: Cuba wanted to use the values reported to the tax authority under the previous US-backed regime, and the US didn't because they knew American businesses were committing mass tax fraud over there, so the self-reported values were meaningless. Anyway, long story short, Coca-Cola lost some sugar fields they claimed were worthless, and the US spent the better part of a century and most of their political capital harassing and blockading a tiny island that nobody with a right mind should care about.

Not sure where I'm going with this. I'm sure there's a lesson somewhere.


That's actually a pretty brilliant "**** you" to corporate tax evasion.

The U.S.'s treatment of Cuba was literal terrorism in some time frames, harassment is putting it lightly.
2017-11-05, 10:43 AM #5062
hey remember that Wilbur Ross guy who’s trying to destroy the US Canada alliance by being a huge ****head?

He’s a member of the Russian mob.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/world/wilbur-ross-paradise-papers-icij-1.4383636
2017-11-05, 12:51 PM #5063
Just curious, would it have been possible for Trump to be solvent today without going into debt to shady foreign creditors? One also has to wonder where he finds friends like Wilbur Ross. Is it just that they have a mutual dearth of ethics? Or is Putin indirectly picking US cabinet members that are financially vulnerable to his cronies as a way of enriching his daughter?
2017-11-05, 2:18 PM #5064
2017-11-05, 2:18 PM #5065
Originally posted by Jon`C:
hey remember that Wilbur Ross guy who’s trying to destroy the US Canada alliance by being a huge ****head?

He’s a member of the Russian mob.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/world/wilbur-ross-paradise-papers-icij-1.4383636


Weird how everyone president Donald Trump knows does crimes.

Russian crimes.
2017-11-05, 2:20 PM #5066
Originally posted by Jon`C:
If the US decision ends up actually being respected somehow, it opens the doors for countries to nullify the laws of other countries without much apparent logic. For example, if a Russian company were caught helping people violate Magnitsky laws in the US, should Russia be allowed to stop the international actions the US would seek against that company? Because by the logic of the US courts, Russia may have the right. What decides whose laws apply? Biggest country? Biggest military? US > *? If this stands, it will definitely be terrible.

No matter what happens, it’s gonna be fun.


I thought about this a bit, and I really can't understand why Google wouldn't just.. comply, why the United States would basically bully Canada over this, or.. why any of it. Why should it be such a big deal to not enable criminals?
2017-11-05, 2:26 PM #5067
Speaking of the paradise papers:

Quote:
Millions of pounds from the Queen’s private estate has been invested in a Cayman Islands fund – and some of her money went to a retailer accused of exploiting poor families and vulnerable people.


Man, British royalty did a pretty good job. After they saw the writing on the wall that the days of monarchies were over, they shifted into grifting the British taxpayer out of millions to live a life of luxury. And then grift the taxman as well!

Quote:
How Twitter and Facebook received hundreds of millions of dollars in investments that can be traced back to Russian state financial institutions.


So, this leads back to my own impression here about the damage done by Russia in the election. If Facebook or Twitter actually gave a ****, they could have figured out who was funding these ads and put a stop to it. The question is, why didn't they? Oh, a few nice quarters will help make investors happy. Profit-seeking leading to a subversion of American democracy? Whodda thunkit?
2017-11-05, 6:22 PM #5068
Trump can just pardon himself and anybody else that gets wrapped up in the ever expanding investigation. I really don't get this one. Russia tries to get Hilary elected, fails, and Trump colluded? Doesn't make any sense.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2017-11-05, 6:25 PM #5069
Yes, Trump can pardon himself.

The bigger question is: can congress allow him to do that and not impeach him, without fearing for their lives?

Just today you have another ex-military nut shoot up a church. Earlier this year you had a guy shoot up a congressional baseball game.

Do you really think that not impeaching the president for pardoning himself would let members of congress feel safe at night?
2017-11-05, 6:29 PM #5070
And how could I forget: your own senator, Rand Paul, just had a bunch of his ribs broken by a neighbor.
2017-11-05, 6:33 PM #5071
Quote:
Russia tries to get Hilary elected,


First time I've heard this. Care to elaborate?
2017-11-05, 6:35 PM #5072
Quote:
colluded


Been watching Fox News lately?
2017-11-05, 6:38 PM #5073
Originally posted by Wookie06:
Russia tries to get Hilary elected, fails, and Trump colluded? Doesn't make any sense.


What planet are you living on?
2017-11-05, 6:38 PM #5074
[quote=Ryan Goodman]
Can We Please Stop Talking About ‘Collusion’?
NOV. 2, 2017

Within hours after the American public found out that his most senior campaign official was under an indictment that described him as a secret agent of Russian interests, President Trump declared on Twitter: “There is NO COLLUSION!” A forceful statement if there ever was one. But what exactly was he denying so categorically? We have no idea.

For one reason or another, “collusion” has become the term of choice for discussing what the Trump campaign may or may not have done with Russians. Those in the Trump camp use it regularly: “I did not collude, nor know of anyone else in the campaign who colluded, with any foreign government,” Jared Kushner told Congress this summer. “I did not collude with any foreign government,” Donald Trump Jr. said. “I deeply resent any allegation that I would collude with the oppressive Russian state,” the Republican strategist Roger Stone harrumphed.

It isn’t just those in the Trump camp, though, who have settled on using this word. Among the first to refer to collusion was John Podesta, Hillary Clinton’s campaign chairman, who raised the specter on “Meet the Press”: “I would argue that there’s very, it’s very much unknown whether there was collusion.” In that same week, Senator Harry Reid, Democrat of Nevada, said of Trump campaign connections to WikiLeaks, “So there is collusion there, clearly.” The term has been a touchstone ever since.

Mr. Trump and his inner circle have benefited enormously from this coalescing around the word “collusion” — a term with a legalistic feel but with close to “no legal meaning whatsoever” said Renato Mariotti, a former federal prosecutor and now a defense lawyer who has written a dissection of every public statement that a Trump associate has made to congressional investigators. If we care about the law — and about holding public figures accountable for their false denials — the impassioned disavowals of collusion by members of the Trump circle mean nothing. Donald Trump Jr.’s utterances to Congress, for example, were “not denying that he committed a crime,” Mr. Mariotti said. “Whether his denial is broader or more narrow than that depends on what exactly is meant by ‘collude’ in this statement — which we don’t know.”

What might the term “collusion” actually mean? Mr. Mariotti and I may disagree on a small technicality; it does have some legal meaning. It is found in one place in the federal code, in the area of antitrust law, concerning practices such as price-fixing. But that’s no help. To transpose the antitrust framework onto issues of election interference would require metaphor gymnastics.
Outside the legal definition, collusion might mean something along the lines of conspiracy and complicity. And we should not care only about whether Mr. Trump’s actions were inside or outside the boundaries of the law. The impeachment clause of the Constitution certainly doesn’t (you can be impeached for violating the public’s sacred trust without committing a crime). The sheer offensiveness of the action is what’s more important.But the integrity of even this idea has been degraded by the ready mixing of the term with legal concepts (notions of “proof” of collusion and ideas of “criminal collusion”).

The problem is that the focus on the term “collusion” has had the effect of implying precision where there is essentially none. Meeting the standard of “proof of collusion” isn’t a matter of meeting a technical definition or threshold — it is a matter of persuading enough people that what we’re seeing is collusion. It is, in other words, a political judgment and, as with all things political, is extraordinarily subjective and vulnerable to all sorts of manipulations. The fuzziness of the current discourse may not matter much to the F.B.I., whose investigation will surely adhere to the letter of the law — but it might matter a great deal for how its findings play in the court of public opinion.

The use of the word has, for instance, allowed members of Congress handling the Russia investigation to tell us that they have not seen a scintilla of evidence of “collusion.” We now know that these congressional members had long been told by American intelligence officials that advisers to Mr. Trump might be working with the Russians to interfere in the election. That’s what use of the word “collusion” helped keep hidden

The term’s elusiveness has also allowed for an easy shifting of goal posts. Back in June, Mr. Trump took to Twitter to say that President Barack Obama was the one who “colluded” with the Kremlin to interfere with the election. When a reporter pressed the question — “what evidence does he have that President Obama was colluding?” — the White House press secretary, Sean Spicer, responded that Obama insiders “knew about it and didn’t take any action.” If that were the standard for collusion, then if people on Mr. Trump’s campaign were aware of Russian possession of stolen emails and did nothing, they’d have no defense against allegations of collusion. But they do — because the term comes with no consensus as to its definition.

We have now surely lost touch with any reasonable sense of what “collusion” means. If we, as a country, knew a year ago what’s now understood to be an avalanche of well-reported facts, published emails and legal documentation, the behavior of the president’s family and associates would have crossed any reasonable line of what might be meant by an attempt to collude with the Kremlin.

Mr. Trump might have won anyway without Vladimir Putin’s help. That’s not the issue. The issue is that the behavior of Mr. Trump and his associates amounts to a deep offense against the public’s sacred trust. We need to reckon not only with that fact, but also with how as a nation, we’ve almost lost the sense to recognize it.
[/quote]

.
2017-11-05, 6:40 PM #5075
Originally posted by Reid:
What planet are you living on?


Reid... why, you little ignorant liberal sheep. Get with the right wing programming, will `ya?

Turn on your F-150 ignition, tune in to the AM band, drop out.

Obama was a Keynan terrorist.
2017-11-05, 6:57 PM #5076
Originally posted by Wookie06:
Russia tries to get Hilary elected.
This is such a stupid comment that I can’t even begin to think of short enough words to explain it to you.
2017-11-05, 6:58 PM #5077
Trump is laundering money for Putin. jfc, how have you not been paying attention to this? He is literally in Putin’s employ.
2017-11-05, 7:03 PM #5078
Quote:
A friend of mine has been working on this same angle since Trump was elected.
Politico covered his work in August: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/20/trump-bombshells-ro...
His website is here: Weird money in, weird money out https://ragepath.org/weird-money-in-weird-money-out
And below is his working hypothesis:
We've documented Trump's relations with a variety of Soviet and Russian individuals and organizations in the attached bullet book. Financial crimes and money laundering explain a large part of Trump's wealth.
Trump's basic grift seems to be one that he learned from his father. A loan is just a tax-free transfer of cash. So don't pay yourself income when you can loan yourself cash instead. Whether it's embezzled FHA mortgages, Mitchell-Lama funds, NJHFA funds.... it doesn't matter. Borrow way more than you need, live off the borrowings, use the loan payments to offset gains from other legitimate sources of income.
40 Wall Street in NYC would be a great example of this. Trump bought the building for $1 million cash in the latter half of 1995 (a time of many highly suspicious cash transactions for a man who was allegedly $900 million in the red). He borrowed $35 million supposedly to renovate it (maybe). Let's imagine that it loses money, let's go wild and say it's losing $1 million a year (an overestimate) for 20 years. Overall, Trump's out of pocket by $56 million. But he's borrowed $160 million against the building. That means his net cash position is $104 million. And many of his deals are structured in a similar way.
This looks to us like a classic money-laundering scheme known as a "loan-back." Let's say Trump's brother Robert loans a company $500k which it then uses to open up a $5 million account offshore (Financial Performance Corporation) and another company affiliated with Robert (Management Technologies) spends nearly $13 million buying a shady group of international companies called Winter Partners... which Midland Associates (a Trump family partnership) then loans an unknown sum secured against all their future accounts receivable. Management Technologies would later write off its Winter Partners investment as a complete loss.
So we can show that Robert Trump was shoveling money overseas in 1995. And just when Trump needed it, investors from Hong Kong showed up and bought the mortgage on Riverside South, overing him insanely generous terms. When they sold the mortgage later for a billion dollar profit, Trump freaked out (even by his standards) - a reaction that makes more sense if you realize that the loan was originally Trump's money, and the Hong Kong investors were only supposed to act as nominees. After they cashed out their profit, they ended up selling their 70% stake, which found its way into the hands of Trump's friend at Vornado Realty, Steve Roth.
So that's the core of the insight we've had. It's an explanation that seems to hold up well when we examine individual deals that Trump's been involved in. So many of his ventures lose money because the loans themselves are just part of a money laundering show - a tax free way to legitimately receive a pile of cash you're not otherwise entitled to. And the lender has access to an offshore asset as security, so even if you eventually default, they'll be made whole. We're not sure how much of it is Trump's money.
Here's a quick dash through the overall timeline of Trump's life that we think we see:
1974-1987: Trump comes up in New York real estate rubbing elbows with various mobbed up figures (Cohn, Salerno, Tomasello, et al.) and working as a kind of front man for the Genovese, Gambino and Scarfo crime families. A lot of his early projects are just classic mob grifts. Borrow a bunch of money to build something, hire a bunch of mob contractors, pay too much... Trump's being taken care of but not enormously so
1988-1990: Trump borrows $3 billion in the course of 2 years, $650 million of which is mean to finish construction of the nearly completed Taj Mahal. Within two years the money is gone, despite the fact that many of the construction contractors hadn't been paid. So this is the period where we think Trump embezzled the money, got a cut, and had to hide it offshore until the statute of limitations had cleared.
1991-1995: Trump's laying low. The Soviet Union collapses. Tamir Sapir, Sam Kislin, Eduard Nakhamkin ... three (at least) Russian figures suddenly leap from working-class Russian immigrants to international financiers in control of huge sums of money. Our working theory is they were ex-KGB, after the Soviet Union's fall they began collaborating with American counter-intelligence officials at the FBI and CIA, and they used their positions in New York to help their former associates back home embezzle billions of dollars in state-owned assets out of the former Soviet Union.
1995-2005: Trump begins repatriating his own money in some of his most bizarre business deals. Trump perhaps realizes he can syndicate this model and also begins facilitating loan back schemes for Russian investors by putting his name on their buildings (the whole Bayrock period)
2006-2015: Most of Trump's money has come back to him by now, and he's basically running a money-laundering syndicate for Russian oligarchs (though there are still some Italians and Asians in the mix) - some of whom are in favor with Putin and the state, others who are decidedly not.
If we're right, it's an audacious scheme that he's managed to pull off right in front of our faces. He's managed it by exploiting our preconceptions about debt and net worth. All the fights over Trump's wealth have been about his net worth - what's the value minus the liabilities? And we look at a debt as a zero-sum transaction. But the Trump enterprise really seems to be operating on net cash flow.


How much meth do you have to take to think Putin wanted Hillary Clinton in the White House, of all people? Obama’s Secretary of State? One of the people responsible for the many global financial sanctions against him and his surrogates? Probably the single person who has cost Putin the most? Asking for your physician.
2017-11-05, 7:04 PM #5079
And lets just preempt your pending “I was just trolling lol” post, because everybody here knows you are low information AF and take your political opinions from Sean Hannity verbatim.
2017-11-05, 7:15 PM #5080
Like I know it’s not productive to belittle someone’s opinion this way, but you’re not exactly giving me much go work with here. Holy **** where did you even get this idea.
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