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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Inauguration Day, Inauguration Hooooooraaay!
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Inauguration Day, Inauguration Hooooooraaay!
2017-11-18, 2:13 AM #5641
Originally posted by Reid:
Unironically though I don't feel you offered a legitimate argument, and I haven't been engaging because of that.


I'm not going to spend a lot of time writing a response to you right now, but, to elaborate on my last post, it is the case that instead of engaging me in discussions on individual topics and providing counter-arguments to my arguments, you often respond to my arguments by (falsely) attributing to me a kind of Sam Harris-rationalist New Democrat-technocrat world view that has nothing to do with my way of thinking about the world, while claiming that I ought to "reflect on my own biases", when, in fact, I do, and for the most part "reflecting on my own biases" wouldn't cause me to reconsider my opinions on the particular topic we happen to be talking about. (See, for instance, our last sparing match on Masha Gessen, which is par for the course.)

You're all about those ad hominems, bro.
former entrepreneur
2017-11-18, 2:13 AM #5642
Originally posted by Reid:
I don't know.

“It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!”


lmao
2017-11-18, 2:15 AM #5643
So, side note: it's really annoying reading math at times, because so much of the language exists simply to knock away trivial counter examples.

I'm doing a reading in differential forms and it's annoying how often it has to be reasserted that the curves are of bounded length. Like I get it, we're assuming the curves are rectifiable, because we're assuming nice things, and fractals suck. But I guess there's no good way to blanket make that assumption that leaves no ambiguity.
2017-11-18, 2:16 AM #5644
Originally posted by Eversor:
I'm not going to spend a lot of time writing a response to you right now, but it is the case that instead of engaging me in discussions on individual topics and providing counter-arguments to my arguments, you often respond to my arguments by (falsely) attributing to me a kind of Sam Harris-rationalist New Democrat-technocrat world view that has nothing to do with my way of thinking about the world, while claiming that I ought to "reflect on my own biases", when, in fact, I do, and for the most part "reflecting on my own biases" wouldn't cause me to reconsider my opinions on the particular topic we happen to be talking about. (See, for instance, our last sparing match on Masha Gessen, which is par for the course.)

You're all about those ad hominems, bro.


From what I remember, you claimed her viewpoint was really biased, and that I'm biased, and that you gave an "argument" about why the math was irrelevant (which was literally you just saying it was irrelevant), and so forth. I don't recall much of substance coming from your direction.
2017-11-18, 2:21 AM #5645
Originally posted by Reid:
From what I remember, you claimed her viewpoint was really biased, and that I'm biased, and that you gave an "argument" about why the math was irrelevant (which was literally you just saying it was irrelevant), and so forth. I don't recall much of substance coming from your direction.


Yeah, given how you responded to it, I think it's very telling that you remember this post as a personal attack. But it didn't happen that way. I made a point, you called me a pedant and so started the great screaming match of November... whatever, a few days ago.
former entrepreneur
2017-11-18, 2:23 AM #5646
Originally posted by Eversor:
Yeah, given how you responded to it, I think it's very telling that you remember this post as a personal attack. But it didn't happen that way. I made a point, you called me a pedant and so started the great screaming match of November... whatever, a few days ago.


It was a pretty pedantic point though. And overstated. Like, you found something slightly incongruous with what Masha Gessen said, then blew it up into her being "*surprisingly* dishonest". For as much as you claim I'm biased, once you read someone that disagrees with you, you go all pedantic trying to nitpick any details of the arguments you don't like and blow them out of proportion. Or, at least, at times that happens.
2017-11-18, 2:24 AM #5647
Originally posted by Eversor:
I'm not going to spend a lot of time writing a response to you right now, but it is the case that instead of engaging me in discussions on individual topics and providing counter-arguments to my arguments, you often respond to my arguments by (falsely) attributing to me a kind of Sam Harris-rationalist New Democrat-technocrat world view that has nothing to do with my way of thinking about the world, while claiming that I ought to "reflect on my own biases", when, in fact, I do, and for the most part "reflecting on my own biases" wouldn't cause me to reconsider my opinions on the particular topic we happen to be talking about. (See, for instance, our last sparing match on Masha Gessen, which is par for the course.)

You're all about those ad hominems, bro.


You're forgetting to go through the checklist:



I'm sure I forgot a few.
2017-11-18, 2:27 AM #5648
Especially when the point is rhetorical, i.e. Masha Gessen might have been stretching a bit to make the claim she did, but it wasn't necessarily a false picture, it just might have been a poor example. But, if you think she's wrong, and that more traditional media sources absolutely don't reflect the problem she's getting at, it's not enough to simply point that out, an actual argument would rely on bringing up an argument in a different direction. Which, at times, you do, and those are the times you're convincing.

I.E. I think sometimes you abuse the fallacy fallacy, where you reject conclusions due to some problems with the argument instead of properly arguing the opposite conclusion.
2017-11-18, 2:27 AM #5649
Originally posted by Reid:
It was a pretty pedantic point though. And overstated. Like, you found something slightly incongruous with what Masha Gessen said, then blew it up into her being "*surprisingly* dishonest". For as much as you claim I'm biased, once you read someone that disagrees with you, you go all pedantic trying to nitpick any details of the arguments you don't like and blow them out of proportion.


There he goes again. Twice in that one post.
former entrepreneur
2017-11-18, 2:30 AM #5650
At what point in rhetoric do we just admit we are getting mired in differences of opinion about the preferred techniques for debugging one another's thought process?
2017-11-18, 2:30 AM #5651
It's not lost on me that the guy who calls repeatedly me pedantic posted a Kant meme on this very page, accused me of being a follower of Ayn Rand, and regularly quotes Hegel and Nietzsche without explanation or justification.
former entrepreneur
2017-11-18, 2:31 AM #5652
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
At what point in rhetoric do we just admit we are getting mired in differences of opinion about the preferred techniques for debugging one another's thought process?


YES THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET AT THIS ENTIRE TIME PLEASE HELP REID ACKNOWLEDGE THAT SO WE CAN TALK ABOUT SOMETHING OTHER THAN OURSELVES FOR A LITTLE WHILE
former entrepreneur
2017-11-18, 2:31 AM #5653
Maybe we need some site-wide ground rules here.

I'll be back as soon as I've created /r/NeutralMassassi
2017-11-18, 2:32 AM #5654
Originally posted by Eversor:
It's not lost on me that the guy who calls repeatedly me pedantic posted a Kant meme on this very page, accused me of being a follower of Ayn Rand, and regularly quotes Hegel and Nietzsche without explanation or justification.


I never accused you of being a follower of Ayn Rand, not even remotely. What was that about someone taking things to be personal attacks?
2017-11-18, 2:32 AM #5655
Quote:
accused me of being a follower of Ayn Rand


OK, to be fair, that was my contribution, and it was a joke.
2017-11-18, 2:34 AM #5656
Originally posted by Reid:
I never accused you of being a follower of Ayn Rand, not even remotely. What was that about someone taking things to be personal attacks?


Oh whatever you still do that other ****. A lot.
former entrepreneur
2017-11-18, 2:35 AM #5657
He called you a ┬ÁRand.
2017-11-18, 2:36 AM #5658
I'm also pissed that this post ended up on page 114 instead of page 113.
former entrepreneur
2017-11-18, 2:37 AM #5659
It's alright, it all goes into File 13 anyway.
2017-11-18, 2:38 AM #5660
Originally posted by Reid:
I think sometimes you abuse the fallacy fallacy, where you reject conclusions due to some problems with the argument instead of properly arguing the opposite conclusion.


I think you think that I think my arguments do more than I think they do. I think.
former entrepreneur
2017-11-18, 2:41 AM #5661
I am still trying to decide whether Jon`C is referring to Atlas Shrugged or the GFC.
2017-11-18, 2:42 AM #5662
Originally posted by Eversor:
I think you think that I think my arguments do more than I think they do. I think.


Yeah, maybe so. Should we just stop arguing and read everything we write as a series of ****posts?
2017-11-18, 2:42 AM #5663
Originally posted by Reid:
I never accused you of being a follower of Ayn Rand, not even remotely. What was that about someone taking things to be personal attacks?


I notice that you're not responding to my other allegations...
former entrepreneur
2017-11-18, 2:42 AM #5664
Originally posted by Reid:
Yeah, maybe so. Should we just stop arguing and read everything we write as a series of ****posts?


I thought all of your posts are **** posts? They're written like **** posts. They're definitely ****ty posts.
former entrepreneur
2017-11-18, 2:45 AM #5665
Originally posted by Eversor:
I notice that you're not responding to my other allegations...


I'm in a good mood, I've made a few breakthroughs in studying since I woke up this morning. Not about to ruin that mood arguing about petty stuff.
2017-11-18, 2:47 AM #5666
So in other words, you use this site like one of my math friends uses /pol.
2017-11-18, 2:48 AM #5667
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
So in other words, you use this site like one of my math friends uses /pol.


I'm not sure how to answer that. Maybe?
2017-11-18, 2:48 AM #5668
Originally posted by Reid:
I'm in a good mood, I've made a few breakthroughs in studying since I woke up this morning. Not about to ruin that mood arguing about petty stuff.


Not an Argument. Quite literally.
2017-11-18, 2:49 AM #5669
Originally posted by Reid:
I'm not sure how to answer that. Maybe?


Are you a member of the alt. right?

If you answered no, then the answer to your original question is yes.
2017-11-18, 2:51 AM #5670
(He is alt. right. But ****posting lefty stuff here isn't too different.)
2017-11-18, 2:51 AM #5671
Originally posted by Reid:
Yeah, maybe so. Should we just stop arguing and read everything we write as a series of ****posts?


No? I made two arguments about Gessen's article, that doesn't mean that I think I refuted her argument as a whole. It means I thought on those two points she was dishonest, not that I'm dispensing with reasoning altogether.

As I said before, I'd hoped that we'd move from there to a broader discussion about Gessen's article (and eventually Russia). But you took the whole thing as a personal.

Honestly, this is some trivial **** and a waste of our time. We're now arguing about an argument we had about an article where we're not even talking about the content of that article, much less the topic that that article is about.
former entrepreneur
2017-11-18, 2:52 AM #5672
Okay I'm sorry guys for the provocation. I couldn't help it.

Even reading this thread now, I think to myself that I may just as well read something silly like Gulliver's Travels instead.
2017-11-18, 2:55 AM #5673
Originally posted by Eversor:
No? I made two arguments about Gessen's article, that doesn't mean that I think I refuted her argument as a whole. It means I thought on those two points she was dishonest, not that I'm dispensing with reasoning altogether.

As I said before, I'd hoped that we'd move from there to a broader discussion about Gessen's article (and eventually Russia). But you took the whole thing as a personal.

Honestly, this is some trivial **** and a waste of our time. We're now arguing about an argument we had about an article where we're not even talking about the content of that article, much less the topic that that article is about.


Yup! You're welcome to bring that stuff up, I'd be interested to read it, but I agree we should stop talking about the other stuff.
2017-11-18, 2:55 AM #5674
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
(He is alt. right. But ****posting lefty stuff here isn't too different.)


Ah, I see. I guess I basically am just ****posting.

Though effortposting is usually not rewarded on Massassi, the best posts don't get replies *shrug*.
2017-11-18, 2:57 AM #5675
Don't let me put words in your mouth, but you called them that yourself. I don't necessarily see it that way.
2017-11-18, 2:57 AM #5676
Originally posted by Reid:
Yup! You're welcome to bring that stuff up, I'd be interested to read it, but I agree we should stop talking about the other stuff.


Nope. You ruined it.

I'm going to go play outside.
former entrepreneur
2017-11-18, 2:57 AM #5677
Originally posted by Reid:
Though effortposting is usually not rewarded on Massassi, the best posts don't get replies *shrug*.


All the more reason to convert this place into /r/NeutralMassassi
2017-11-18, 2:58 AM #5678
Originally posted by Eversor:
Nope. You ruined it.

I'm going to go play outside.


Have fun!

Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
Don't let me put words in your mouth, but you called them that yourself. I don't necessarily see it that way.


Well that's nice to hear.
2017-11-18, 2:59 AM #5679
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
All the more reason to convert this place into /r/NeutralMassassi


But that'd be boring.
2017-11-18, 3:00 AM #5680
Evidence. Logic. Natalie Portman photos.
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