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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Inauguration Day, Inauguration Hooooooraaay!
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Inauguration Day, Inauguration Hooooooraaay!
2017-12-04, 12:40 AM #6081
Originally posted by Eversor:
What's left of ideological conservatism as a legislative agenda?


Ideological conservatism - the sort of conservatism of Buckley, Hayek et al., has been on its way out for a long time. The Republicans radicalized and basically are an insurgent movement in the government.
2017-12-04, 12:43 AM #6082
It's kind of sad to gaze upon the works of these old ideologues with a tinge of nostalgia for the days when you could point to an intellectual to back up your stupid idea.

Maybe conservatives realized that liberals weren't buying their intellectual arguments and turned to memes instead.
2017-12-04, 2:17 AM #6083
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
It's kind of sad to gaze upon the works of these old ideologues with a tinge of nostalgia for the days when you could point to an intellectual to back up your stupid idea.

Maybe conservatives realized that liberals weren't buying their intellectual arguments and turned to memes instead.


There's plenty to be nostalgic about. One can look back at the Cold War and long for the moral clarity and sense of national purpose that came with it (especially the way America's self-image were honed during the Reagan administration). That sense of clarity becomes desirable when you live in a world where threats (both from within and without) appear to be looming in every corner, but nobody knows what they are until they pounce.
former entrepreneur
2017-12-04, 2:25 AM #6084
That makes sense, but I thought we were always at war with the Kenyan infiltrators?
2017-12-04, 2:32 AM #6085
OoooOoo Roger Cohen OooOOoooOOoo

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/03/opinion/america-fractured-2017.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region

Quote:
A century has passed since President Woodrow Wilson, in his 14 Points speech of January 1918, set out an American plan for the world. He called for the removal of economic barriers to trade, an adjustment of colonial claims that respected “the interests of the populations concerned,” and the creation of a League of Nations to guarantee “political independence and territorial integrity to great and small states.” It was a program that announced America’s ordering intentions, and it was supposed to put an end to war. Wilson failed; Europe’s peace at the end of World War I would last but a generation. Still, having gotten into the global blueprint business, the United States, more powerful than ever by 1945, would not relinquish it — until 2017.

One hundred years is a good run. Countless people across the globe have gained or preserved their freedom through American power. Errors were conspicuous. Nations are no more infallible than the individuals who compose them. Yet, all in all, liberty, democracy and a rules-based order, protected by far-flung American garrisons, spread and prospered. Pax Americana was no rip-off. It delivered. But all things must pass.

That the world was ripe for a shake-up has been Donald Trump’s singular intuition and constitutes his singular gamble. A property guy who was raised in New York, he’s used to gambles and a values-free transactional universe. As his company once operated, so he now believes the United States should operate. He is at home with authoritarian thugs; he recognizes their ilk. His obeisance to the treaties, trade pacts, multilateral organizations and alliances that have advanced American interests in conjunction with the interests of America’s friends has been grudging at best. He thinks all that is hogwash.

In fact, he does not even believe he needs more than the bare bones of a State Department. American foreign policy has ceased. “The one that matters is me,” he tells Fox News. “I’m the only one that matters, because when it comes to it, that’s what the policy is going to be.” Call it “Me-ism.” And so, in his slash-and-burn way, driven by instinct, Mr. Trump has already ushered in a new world order.

Or rather, he has ushered in a free-for-all, no longer shaped by American prescription, bereft of even the semblance of a moral compass. When it comes to the values of liberal societies, France, Germany and Canada will have to take up the mantle (Britain has gone on post-Brexit walkabout). The dangers of the new vacuum are chiefly offset (if often amplified) by the social networks of the 21st century, linking communities across borders; and by the eroding but not yet defunct architecture of the postwar order. Trump has not, so far, hurled the world over a cliff.

Sure, Russia and Iran won in Syria. Sure, you can get on a motorbike in Tehran and drive through territory mainly under Iranian control or influence all the way to Beirut. Sure, Saudi Arabia, recklessly embraced by Trump, stands somewhere between revolution and implosion under the fast-forwarding, grandstanding Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. Sure, Saudi-Iranian enmity could end in war (in Yemen, it already has). Sure, America’s withdrawal from the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade agreement and from the Paris climate accord signal abandonment of responsibility — as surely as China’s “One Belt, One Road” initiative binding countries to its expanding ambition signals confidence and engagement. Sure, Trump has honed nuclear brinkmanship with North Korea. Sure, he hardly knows, and cares less, where Ukraine is or what Vladimir Putin may be doing there.

The thing is, Trump thrives on all this upheaval. He believes the world does, too, within limits. As I said, he’s a property guy raised in New York. Property is a conservative business. That’s inside Trump, too: He walks to the edge but not over it. He wouldn’t want prices-per-square-foot to tumble. Markets, as he keeps noting, have soared since he took office. Wall Street loves an administration that looks after the rich (especially if it can pretend its real concern is the American worker).

The 21st-century world is a pyramid. Wiring everyone together did not so much empower everyone as connect the elites at the summit, the guys who had the view of everything and the means to turn what they saw into a geyser of cash. Busy with all that, sure of themselves, operating globally, benefiting from cheap labor and tax-lite impunity, they scarcely noted that they no longer had much connection with the masses below, whose view was still national, whose culture was still local, and who dimly suffered, with mounting anger, the transformative consequences of globalization.

Trump saw that he could be the vehicle of that anger. He grasped that nationalism, nativism and xenophobia were ripe for a rerun. Sovereignty is his mot du jour, even if — or more likely because — ever more of life is lived in a virtual reality where the nation is defunct. The ugly reactionary tide has not yet run its course. Trump will squeeze every last drop of political juice from it in 2018 and beyond. So will Europe’s rightist movements, still vigorous across the continent despite Emmanuel Macron’s uplifting victory in France. The neo-fascists of Poland, of Hungary, are on the march, their anti-Semitism not yet exhausted. In every Western democracy, Trump has helped unleash that which is most foul in human nature.

It’s the last stand of the white man, whose century this will not be. Demography is inexorable, as are movements in people’s minds. Wilson could still speak of colonialism as something to be adjusted, rather than the vile white exploitation of dark-skinned people that it was. Women, in his time, were mere adjuncts to men. The world moves on, but in zigzags, not straight lines. The front lines of race are no longer in British India. They are down the street, or over the tracks, within Western societies. Eurocentrism is over. Gender and sexuality are a battleground in the dismantlement of old ways of thinking. Yet the old, especially in male chauvinist form, never goes quietly. It digs in and it fights.

Of course, Trump’s reactionary politics do little or nothing for his white blue-collar constituency. What he offers is spectacle. This is the potent lifeblood of his movement: the appearance of action. Statesmanship is such a quaint word because spectacle has replaced it.

Trump’s proposed tax cuts are for the rich. Who else? Meanwhile, immigrants in New York and across the country are living in a terrifying dark age. Immigrant workers on farms are often too afraid to leave properties. Arrests of unauthorized immigrants by the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency are up 43 percent over last year in the period between Trump’s inauguration and early September. All over the United States, mothers and fathers are being ripped from their children. Young immigrants who thought they could dream of an American future have seen that future denied.

The Trump administration has embarked on an all-out attack on the poor, be they recipients of food stamps, or Medicaid, or any federal cushioning of low-income existence and misery. Incompetence has been deified in his Washington. It’s not just the State Department that’s been eviscerated. The Department of Agriculture and the Environmental Protection Agency are not far behind. “Climate change” is now an unutterable phrase in official circles. Beneath all that Trump noise, ugliness and brutality spread in a fractured America governed by a man who thrives on division.

Storms are brewing. The weather itself is weird and violent. Fear spreads. Peace feels more fragile. Technology is a great connector; it is also a great isolator. Individualism lurches into narcissism. Truth and falsehood blur. Stupidity and vulgarity are on the march.

An American president tweets about revoking the broadcast license of NBC because its news division is not patriotic enough. This is Putin-Erdogan-Duterte territory.

People start to shrug. Some rejoice. This is the new reality. Trump actually tweets: “Why would Kim Jong-un insult me by calling me ‘old,’ when I would NEVER call him ‘short and fat?’ Oh well, I try so hard to be his friend — and maybe some day that will happen!” The world will have to get along without America, taking a break in middle school, and without even the idea of America.

Good luck to it. The time was ripe; Pax Americana was so 20th century. Chaos is stimulating, even revitalizing. It punishes lazy thinking. It occurs at the ending of something, which must inevitably be the beginning of something else. Of course, chaos can also end badly — before it yields its unknowable fruits.
former entrepreneur
2017-12-04, 2:54 AM #6086
Good article!

I've been ragging on people I know who have alt right sympathies that they are cheering on the end of Pax Americana.

My general opinion of their reaction is that they are either too ignorant or too paranoid to care.
2017-12-04, 8:09 AM #6087
Looks like Trump offered full-throated support for Roy Moore.
2017-12-04, 12:29 PM #6088
I can't help but think how badly Democrats will lose morally if Moore wins. It basically means that liberals have been fighting a multifront war, and conservatives have baited them into thinking they even care about sexual assault. Rather, conservatives only really care about pushing back against any and every politician that frustrates their attempts to roll back the jurisdiction of the federal government to 18th century levels.
2017-12-04, 12:59 PM #6089
Lol, I guess the last time Republicans controlled the Senate, House, Presidency, Supreme Court pick and a majority of state governors was 1928.
2017-12-04, 1:00 PM #6090
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
I can't help but think how badly Democrats will lose morally if Moore wins. It basically means that liberals have been fighting a multifront war, and conservatives have baited them into thinking they even care about sexual assault. Rather, conservatives only really care about pushing back against any and every politician that frustrates their attempts to roll back the jurisdiction of the federal government to 18th century levels.


Hey Wookie, what's your response to this?
2017-12-04, 1:09 PM #6091
Republicans believe the media is lying about them, dudes.
2017-12-04, 1:14 PM #6092
Oh yeah, **** the (((lugenpresse)))
2017-12-04, 1:17 PM #6093
Huh, maybe the refusal to read anything is why Republican voters are even dumber than they traditionally are.
2017-12-04, 1:21 PM #6094
Speaking of halting federal expansion, did you hear that Trump is angling to fight back against Native American encroachment on Mormon society?

Of course, it may have something to do with the fact that Bears Ears national monument had been legislated into existence by Barack Obama, but surely Trump's reasons for disliking a law are more complex than that??
2017-12-04, 1:32 PM #6095
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Republicans believe the media is lying about them, dudes.


If Trump is quoted as saying one thing by the media and then changes his tune 12 months later, does that include himself?

I do remember reading about this kind of thing before (e.g., rumor that Hitler was part Jewish).
2017-12-04, 1:32 PM #6096
Holy ****, we're watching America rewind. First it was the KKK, now we're back to taking land from the Injuns.
2017-12-04, 1:34 PM #6097
So there's no way we're not in like an absurd stock bubble right now, right?
2017-12-04, 1:36 PM #6098
Ouch, Hitler was also black!



Of course, when Trump admitted to grabbing `em by the pussy, it was surely just statistical noise.
2017-12-04, 1:40 PM #6099
I really wish we could do some DNA testing on DJT and uncover some Kenyan ancestry.
2017-12-04, 1:43 PM #6100
Those “scientists” will say anything to keep good hard-working Republicans from doing what’s rght
2017-12-04, 1:49 PM #6101
Hey remember that time Wookie06 claimed global warming was a scam by climate scientists to get more government money to do nothing, and then I pointed out that actually all of those people are highly paid professionals, sought particularly by the oil industry, and that reporting on the oil industry causing global warming they are actually destroying their careers and stand nothing to personally gain by making any of this stuff up, and he ignored me?

That’s Republicans on every issue.

They’re **** people even by conservative standards, internationally speaking.
2017-12-04, 1:58 PM #6102
“X should be illegal because my religion expects me to think it’s gross” isn’t virtue signalling but when a progressive says “we shouldn’t elect a sexual predator” whoa watch out
2017-12-04, 3:07 PM #6103
[https://i.imgur.com/z2jUzof.jpg]
2017-12-04, 3:37 PM #6104
2017-12-04, 4:12 PM #6105


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/937641904338063361
2017-12-04, 4:25 PM #6106
I'm still amazed somebody made an 8 minute long scene of Wookies talking with no subtitles or anything.
2017-12-04, 4:26 PM #6107
Like it's shot like normal dialogue, but they're speaking Wookie language. I don't get who would unironically think that was a good idea
2017-12-04, 4:28 PM #6108
Subtitles are only going to hold you back from reaching native speaker skill...
2017-12-04, 4:53 PM #6109
George Lucas thought it was a good idea. Apparently.
2017-12-04, 6:20 PM #6110
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:


1:09:57 has always been the funniest scene to me
2017-12-04, 6:39 PM #6111
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Hey remember that time Wookie06 claimed global warming was a scam by climate scientists to get more government money to do nothing, and then I pointed out that actually all of those people are highly paid professionals, sought particularly by the oil industry, and that reporting on the oil industry causing global warming they are actually destroying their careers and stand nothing to personally gain by making any of this stuff up, and he ignored me?

That’s Republicans on every issue.

They’re **** people even by conservative standards, internationally speaking.


I never said that and I certainly didn't ignore you because you made a valid point. I chose not to respond to your post because it was irrelevant. If I remember correctly, my point was more along the lines of theoretical macro sciences such as climate studies and economics are essentially useless. The fact that somebody will pay them well doesn't change that.

I haven't been ignoring posts here lately. I just haven't been interested enough to look at them.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2017-12-04, 6:47 PM #6112
lmao so excited to get a high paying job with my climate degree
Epstein didn't kill himself.
2017-12-04, 6:47 PM #6113
Originally posted by Wookie06:
I never said that and I certainly didn't ignore you because you made a valid point. I chose not to respond to your post because it was irrelevant. If I remember correctly, my point was more along the lines of theoretical macro sciences such as climate studies and economics are essentially useless. The fact that somebody will pay them well doesn't change that.

I haven't been ignoring posts here lately. I just haven't been interested enough to look at them.


Economics is useless, eh?
2017-12-04, 6:48 PM #6114
You know who else didn't care about economics?
2017-12-04, 6:53 PM #6115
So I found out recently that Hindenburg was actually going to implement basically all of the economic stimulus the Nazis did to boost their economy in the 1930's. So the one remotely good thing they did wasn't even their idea.
2017-12-04, 8:10 PM #6116
Originally posted by Spook:
lmao so excited to get a high paying job with my climate degree


I don't know what your program is, but yeah, a PhD in geophysics makes a lot of oil money.
2017-12-04, 8:32 PM #6117
Not that. My goal would be to work with Extension (or NGOs or faux altruistic billionaires or whoever) on getting open source appropriate technology into the hands of communities to promote distributed food production, but since that isn't going to happen and probably wouldn't help, and I would blow my brains out six weeks after getting hired if I pursued the direction you mention, I'm anticipating writing fringe kindle books about the imminent collapse of the biosphere and by extension civilization, even years past the discovery of large scale carbon sequestration and fusion energy and the implementation of fully automated gay luxury space communism.

Think of me as aspiring to be the Steven Seagal of ecology and climate science, totally okay with making little money and being a laughing stock because of my finely honed mental gymnastic abilities. I would also very much like my I told you so to carry the weight of letters after my name. I'll probably pay for my own PhD and do ****ty research ala Sam Harris as well, so I doubt the oil industry would hire me. Or maybe that would all make me the perfect hire? Either way, if I get rich it probably won't be with any education, but writing inflammatory books.

Oh man I can't even keep any of that straight myself anymore. What's the point? I need to focus on that blues band again, this school stuff is an absolute waste
Epstein didn't kill himself.
2017-12-04, 9:00 PM #6118
Logistics is the only problem for which computers are appropriate, so I applaud your goal.
2017-12-04, 9:04 PM #6119
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Logistics is the only problem for which computers are appropriate, so I applaud your goal.


Nah, they're good at giving socially awkward people a way to avoid speaking to people.
2017-12-04, 9:19 PM #6120
Originally posted by Reid:
Economics is useless, eh?


Macro economics. Unless you're a superpower or George Soros you can't actually affect it.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

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